Decoding Money: Understanding the Evolution from Barter to Bitcoin

Hello everyone, my name is Dalia D'agostino, and welcome to FinTech TV.

I'm pleased to welcome Henri Arslanian and Michael Dotsikas, the co-authors of the children's book "Decoding Crypto." Hi, Henry and Michael, thank you so much for doing this with me.

Thanks for having us.

Yeah, thank you for having us, Dalia.

I have to start by telling you too, I love your book.

We love it too, so there you go.

Um, it's honestly one of the smartest kids' books I've come across, um, and the choice to start with History of Money before jumping into Bitcoin is something I wish every adult would do before explaining crypto to kids.

Um, your book is built for ages 7 to 13, and it does that brilliantly with the rhymes, the illustrations, and the QR codes.

The thing is, I'm 13, and a lot of kids my age are ready for the next step.

We can handle more of the why and how and the actual mechanics behind Bitcoin.

So what I'd love to do with you guys today is start with the main concept in your book, what is money, and figure out together how a kid my age should understand it.

Well, money is very important.

I mean, we're in the building of money basically here, right?

But in what's really, really important, uh, Dalia, is actually what we define as money has changed over the years.

Uh, and this is one thing we do in the book to teach because, yeah, now we talk about crypto, we talk about Bitcoin, but what we know as the concept of money has evolved over the years.

This is why in the book, for example, we talk about the history of money.

Back in the day used to be barter, people trading goods, like in places like these like that the New York Stock Exchange, back in the day when it used to be in the farm in the middle of nowhere.

But there's, but what we define as people were trading and buying and selling has changed over the years.

For example, uh, the word capital comes from the word cattle.

You know, at the time, cattle was the main unit of the cow people would use, uh, for a long, long period of time.

Salt, literally salt was used for people to buy goods.

The word salary that we all work for, uh, comes actually from the Latin saltius, which means salt.

So, as you can see what we, we know, uh, in the history of money is so important because what we define as money has changed over the years, and that was something that was very important for Michael and I to showcase in the book to teach, uh, our, our readers.

And it's also when you're when you're learning something new like these new, you know, technologies and emerging technologies, it's always important to relate them to something maybe you know.

So kids know about money and what is money, you know, it's a shared agreement between two parties.

But so what we did is we tried to give an analogy of what is money and then how has it evolved.

And that's why we went with the, with the history of money.

And we also kind of, if you notice the beginning, we added the two characters.

We wanted to.

To make them a lot of, you know, a little fun.

So we put them in all these historical garbs.

So that was one of the key things that we wanted.

We want to introduce them, but introduce them in a really fun way so kids can relate with them.

So you said like money is an agreement, so that means you can consider like if kids share snacks at lunch, certain snacks have different values that counts as money.

Well, that was, that was a form of, of, if you think about money, that if you ask any economist, any of the smart people in this room.

Today they'll tell you money has 3, the definition has 3 basically verticals.

One, it needs to be a unit of account.

Can I use, how much does a good cost so actually we can transact on it.

Second, it has to be store of value.

So we know that actually if you're using a snack, it's going to keep its value as you're using it from that perspective.

So when it's a unit of account it's store value, and then they know you're able to as a measure of account, you're able to use it on a day to day basis, that's what really makes money.

Uh, so that's what makes it very, very essential from that perspective, and, uh, what meets that definition can change in school if people are transacting snacks, uh, you know, you do my homework and I give you a snack bar, and then you can use that snack bar to go actually trade it for something else.

That's what people are using as a unit of accounts, you know, the, the snack bar. will be keeping its value and you know it's going to be there for for for the foreseeable future.

So here you go, you have a definition of money.

Of course historically it went from salt, cattle, seashells to gold and other assets, but at the core that's what it is.

What it can be in the future, nobody knows, but the concept is still the same.

Um, to go deeper on this topic, um, you explain in your book that money has evolved.

My question for you is, what is money?

Well, I know we kind of already explained, yeah, like, like we said, it's a shared agreement between two parties basically, and it's actually a tool.

It's a tool that humans use to exchange goods and services.

And and that that's what really is money about it started out as bartering, you know, I had something that I can give you, you had something you can give me.

But then what happened sometimes I don't really need, you know, 10 fish, you know, I don't need 3 cattle, so you needed to find something else.

So what, what humans did back then is they found something that was limited in supply, something that was kind of rare, like a cowrie shell or even salt back then, and that had value.

So that was considered money.

So coins that we use today, they used actually You know, items like calorie shells back in the in the days, and it's going to evolve over the years, you know.

You know, everything can have a certain value, and it can also matter in the ecosystem as well.

For example, in your school, if everybody was snack bars, that's what it is.

You know, we see this a lot, for example, in prisons, somewhere none of the kids should go, but uh in prisons, for example, often they use uh cigarettes or fish.

Dried fish is a unit of account.

So a lot of every ecosystem builds off on its own, uh, during some of the big European, the darker period in Europe in the last century, butter.

Literally butter was used as a unit cow, so you know what we know and what we use, it changes over time, but the concept is always the same.

The problem though with money.

Is that you need to be able to control the supply.

That's what gold is valuable.

That's what Bitcoin is valuable.

But if the supply of that, if, if somebody can come at school, bring 1000 snack bars, the value of the snack bar will go down.

So this is what you see that we call that, you know, a quantitative easing or creates hyperinflation, something that unfortunately we've seen a lot, that's something else with Michael Lai made sure to cover in the book as well when it comes to these events.

Kids my age play video games with in-game currency.

Would you consider that real money?

And if not, what's the difference between in-game currency money and real money?

Well, I, so I mean there is, there is a difference, but in in in-game currency, money is, remember that is a closed system, uh, that the currency there is controlled by one company.

It's the company that, you know, developed the video game.

Now, if you look at Bitcoin, Bitcoin is a global system.

It really is not controlled by one company or a bank or a government.

It's, it's controlled by a network of of users or network of, you know, people that are that are doing that.

So, it's a global system.

The, so the in-game currency is is valuable in that ecosystem, but it's valuable because that company that created it made it valuable.

And imagine now, if you could take your what you're using in Minecraft and be able to use it in Roblox and other games, and that becomes really something that could be used, but the concept, as Michael said, is a sea.

You have a, you're using money in that video game or whatever your, your friends are playing, and that actually if that has value, it does.

I mean, you know, I think about a lot of games people play.

I mean, every, uh, a lot of, I'm sure a lot of your viewers spend a lot of time on Roblox, for example, or in Minecraft, that what the assets, the, the money they have in those games, whether it's a skin, a particular gun, a particular way, you know, that has a value, right? as Michael said, many of these are only in the game.

Which is a problem because they control the, the game producer controls that game and they can also change the prices and as a supply as well.

But imagine if you could use what you had at Roblox to pay for your coffee, to pay for your school, to pay for your friend who's doing your homework at school.

Uh, so all these gives you a lot of opportunities and that's what makes it fun.

The interesting thing is it's all digital.

Right?

And uh whereas Michael and I, we grew up in an era where we love our banknotes, we love our checks, or we used to at least, you know, things have changed quite a lot right now, and that's why I think it's going to be very interesting for your viewers and your generation.

Actually, it's funny you bring that up.

Something I realized is that parents talk a lot about.

How much money has changed and how much money is changing into digital, but kids my age and younger and even some older have grown up with digital money, and it's confusing for us because we haven't really seen that big of the changes that are happening.

It's very interesting.

Yeah, because you think digital money is the same.

Uh, you think what you're using now as digital money is the same as Bitcoin.

And there is a difference.

There is a difference with with that type of thing.

But um, but I think your generation is going to ask different questions than than what we asked in the past.

And your generation now growing up with with this digital on these ecosystems, these closed ecosystems with, you know, in-game uh uh systems.

You're going to ask questions like, so why are there borders now around money?

Why can't I send money to someone instantly like I can get information instantly on the internet?

So those are the questions you're asking.

We never could have asked those questions.

And I think this is what, you know, is impressive with your generation growing up in this new, you know, with these new emerging technologies.

And things will change, uh, but, uh, it's a beauty of evolution.

I'm sure when we went from cattle to salt, people were like, what is this?

I want my cattle.

I don't want the salt, or they went to curry shells and so on and so forth.

I mean, even when we had, you know, the first banknotes that came matching the market back in the day, people didn't trust good old money that we have today, you know, if we look at our good old dollars right now, you know, we take it for granted this is what we all believe in.

But there was a time nobody believed in this.

We forget that it's only for 50 years ago, every single banknote was backed by gold.

Why?

People, people didn't trust these pieces of paper.

And so, but then over the years, people got more comfortable, and there's a whole, we can have a whole episode on that.

Uh, but basically, again, people, some people trust this, but your generation trusts the digital version of this.

I actually believe that paper banknotes will be illegal in our lifetime.

Because there's a lot of compliance risks, you don't know where this piece of was, whereas with digital money, there's a lot of ways to make sure it's compliant, it's within the rules, and it's actually set in place.

It's actually a surprising 50.

I mean, it seems like paper money has been around for way longer.

It's been around for a while.

We call this actually fiat currency, that if you look at the US dollar.

In God We Trust, because actually it's backed by nothing, except the faith on the faith towards your government.

And that's something that's been happening uh in the US since 1971, actually.

Uh, but basically, previously for, for the longest period of time, every single bank note, uh, even including the US dollar, was if you could go bring this to a bank and get a set amount of gold in exchange for your dollar.

And this obviously has changed the last for the last 50 years.

And this is anomaly in in in monetary history actually.

Actually, this is why we talk a lot in the book with Michael May.

We talk about how gold has played a very important role throughout history, and our argument is that Bitcoin is a digital version of gold. supply, limited supply.

There's also some benefits if you want to ship gold from here to Europe.

It's quite complicated, but I can send Bitcoin like this in a second.

In the era where we're playing Roblox, Minecraft, all these digital games, in a digital first era, we should also have money that is digital first.

Um, that actually leads us on to my next question.

I'm 13 and I already think about money as digital.

I pay with apps and I've never written a check.

How do you think my money, my concept of money is going to change because of crypto?

So it's uh you've never written a check, which is a good thing.

I mean, the concept of the checks are very outdated, uh, but I think the, the, what the reason we wrote this book, uh, Michael and I, because we genuinely believe that you are the generation that will be the most impacted on the changes that we're seeing not only on money, but also all kind of financial services around.

And we believe that we have a moral duty to educate people in a fun and comical way, in a way that we can actually relate.

Um, uh, on understanding what it is, so I'm shocked, for example, that in schools they don't teach about investing.

They don't teach you about the concept of compound interest.

Well, when you save your dollar, you get the money just works when you're actually, when you're sleeping, it, it tends to work that way we don't teach about investing, you know, and that's one thing we try to do with the book is actually is showcase crypto but not in a.

A funny, not, not in a way where it's about Bitcoin and all this bad, uh, image that the crypto industry has, but in a fun, educative, and actually, uh, very responsible, responsible way that's yeah, we, we during our process, during our, you know, when we were working together and and figuring out the layout of this book, we actually interviewed dozens of, of educators and parents to, to see how we can teach this responsibly, you know, we didn't want it to be about, oh, become rich, you know, you're gonna be rich.

By owning crypto or whatever, no, we want to teach these new emerging technologies because you guys are gonna be living this and it's your generation that's gonna be most affected by it.

So we wanted to teach it very responsibly and, uh, and that's why we, you know, we, we interviewed all these educators, parents, and uh they helped us.

They helped us with, with writing everything and then the concepts and kind of formulating it all together.

Was the book useful when you're ready there you go.

That's actually one of the reasons I I'm doing this.

I agree, I agree that every kid should know financial literacy, and I know that not a lot of schools or even parents know how to teach it.

So it's important.

Yeah, we have principles now and then teachers coming to us and saying this book is actually changing, you know, the way we see and the way we can teach, uh, you know, cryptocurrencies and these new emerging technologies because in the past it was very difficult.

It was intimidating for them.

You know, to learn it.

Imagine and, uh, you know, so for kids, it's even more, but, but again, you guys are living in this digital environment.

So you're, you're grasping these concepts much, much quicker than your parents.

And no offense to teachers in schools, but I mean, you know, I, I always joke that like learning about the Pythagor's theory or geometry or some physics things are very important.

But isn't learning about investing, managing money, even the basics of how interest groups more important?

I would argue yes or some may know, uh uh even some grammar topics, a lot of stuff that we learned in school.

I think the whole education system is a reform and hopefully with this book it's a step in the right direction.

If there was one thing you want kids to get from your books, what would it be?

So I, I, I, I, OK, this is something we talked about, uh, and parents and kids too.

So for parents we wanted it not to be so intimidate, so we wanted, that's why we added this fun, you know, Henry said from the very beginning when I told him, Henry, I think we could do this in rhyme.

I know it's rhyming is usually for younger kids, but I think the older kids appreciate the rhythm and meter, and he's like, yeah, he goes, you know what, he goes, you never can, you can't underestimate the power of fun.

And that's a, that's a really good way of putting things, absolutely, because you know what, you learn better when you're having a good time, you learn better, it stays with you.

But what we wanted kids mostly to get out of this, I think, is, and we created a character in the book, his name is Kryptonaire Wannabe.

So it's somebody who thinks, oh, I'm going to get all this Bitcoin, I'm going to get these cryptocurrency, I'm going to be rich, I'm going to be a millionaire, a billionaire.

He calls himself a kryptonaire, and Henry in the book says, no, no, no, no, cryptonaire means being knowledgeable, learning the skills that you need to be financially literate, and that's what a cryptonaire is, and that's what we want to teach kids is that, you know, get gain the skills, gain the knowledge, learn what you can, then you'll be rich, rich in knowledge, and, and eventually.

You know, financially rich and crypto is here to stay, you know, it may have been, you know, if you think about crypto, Bitcoin is only 18 years old, it's a baby still, you know, and when it comes to the broader history of money.

Our goal is that, you know, we people at least parents are able to read about it, learn about it, kids your age are able to read about it, your friends, and at least you may love Bitcoin, you may hate Bitcoin, you may love crypto, you may hate crypto.

Our job is to make sure you at least understand it, and then you can make your own decision on what the impact could be for parents in particular.

First of all, of course, buying the book is a great, a great gift.

It's better than buying a.

A stupid gift that will go and uh and disappear.

This is actually useful, hopefully it can be useful and some, uh, a little scoop for your, uh, listeners, we're coming up with our second book actually this year in November, our Bitcoin and White Paper Day.

I let people read the book to know what day that is, and then, uh, we're gonna come up with our second book, uh, this one focusing on Bitcoin.

Mike and I, we've been spending a lot of time working on the second one.

I'm very excited to announce it there.

Well, um, yeah, very excited.

Thank you guys.

That's the end of my questions, but I hope you and everyone watching have a great day.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks for having us.

A lot about decoding crypto.