Sports Fest of Ricardo inside the $2.6 trillion business of sports used to be 1.3 when I wrote the book originally after the Davos conference three weeks ago.
We've got to double it, cross out all the titles, put it again.
It's going to be 56 $7 trillion over time, globalization, obviously television, the impact of media, but also entrepreneurs like Scott Phillips who took a bowl game concept, glut market, everybody.
Talking about all stars wanting their moment in the sun and created a brand new moment in the sun.
We're going to talk about all that stuff.
The bottom line is one of those situations that everybody wants to talk about how you do it, and we're going to have a chance to do that.
Scott Phillips, how are you?
And we'll talk about how you did it.
How'd you do it?
Well, doing great, and, uh, it's, uh, as we're filming this, it's about 1 week past the game, so, uh, full recovery, uh, from, uh, from what was a, a pretty big marathon for us over the past 6 to 8 months and getting an All-Star game off the ground and, uh, making this thing happen here with the NFL Network.
Scott Phillips is certainly a classic entrepreneur, and, and we'll talk a little bit about how you do this kind of event, but first of all, football is in your blood.
Uh, I'm told by some of my scouts that you'd have been all world in the NFL but for a little bit of an injury.
Tell.
Everybody's story is the same on that one, but tell me a little bit about your early days.
Well, I certainly wouldn't, uh, say I had any chance in the NFL beyond my dreams, but I, uh, yeah, I played football till I was 28 years old.
Um, you know, I was, uh, played in high school, late bloomer, didn't have much of a college career to Right about, um, you know, sort of peaked late and ended up playing quarterback, uh, in arena leagues until I was 27, 28 years old, uh, did minor league as a quarterback, uh, the Canton Legends, uh, Marion Mayhem or Marion Blue Racers as they were, um, you know, had a, had a really good time with that.
But even then, you know, the, uh, the coaches always said, you know, I earned, My role as being a coach on the field.
Um, and, uh, and I think that's pretty fitting because most of what I do now is coaching and leadership in the football sector.
So I think it kind of, uh, played out exactly how it was supposed to, would be my guess.
Well, it clearly did for you, especially, and so, uh, you graduated from Ohio State in 2005 and Certainly, I would probably say it is the poster child for wide receivers, you know, Brian Hartline becomes the USF coach on the back of his training Smith and Jigba and all the rest of the guys.
But, you know, you have a great legacy, and I'm sure at that point you learned from the best and became one of the best because of your experience.
Yeah, it was, it was awesome.
I had the chance to go and, uh, play ball in college at a smaller school, uh, after my sophomore year.
And, um, you know, this is obviously long before transfer portals and things like that, but, um, could have gone to Division 3 and played there back home, elected to stay at Ohio State, uh, not play football, and, um, you know, kind of came back to it after college and ironically played with several, uh, Ohio State.
Um, alumni, uh, when I was playing arena ball, it was kind of ironic, there was like 9 or 10 Buckeyes on that roster at the time.
Um, so I had a lot of fun, but the playing days were, were, uh, limited for me and, and probably deservedly so.
I definitely had a better, uh, knack for things off the field than on.
We'll talk about off the field in a second, but just an on-field arena ball question, and I've talked to, you know, my, my, my, my buddy Ed policy and some of the other guys, David Baker, about the, the, uh, the, the training regimen and how it's just perfect for the NFL.
You look around and you only see half the guys on the field, but the field is half as small.
Net net, is it the There have been, there have been people that have graduated and played in the NFL.
Is it, is it a, a, a great place to learn how to play, uh, eleven-man football or is it a bit counterproductive?
I think, I don't think it's counterproductive.
I think there's some skills that are more transferable and, um, you know, the, the, the smaller field, it's a different game in a lot of ways with the same shaped ball.
Um, you know, from a quarterback standpoint, you don't see a lot of arena quarterbacks go.
To the league.
I think, you know, my job as a thrower, it was, it's certainly easier.
I think the, the inefficiencies I would have had on a pro field, um, you know, 53 1/3 wide would have shown up, um, you know, being able to, to put a ball, you know, a, uh, a field corner route or a field goal route, you know, for a guy like me, it was a struggle.
Of course, that doesn't show up when you're playing on a field that's the, the width of a hockey rink.
So, Um, you know, I could make every throw in the arena.
You put me outside and it was a little different.
Um, I do think though, for defensive backs, there's one position I used to always say, you know, the arena league I played in, they allowed jet motion, meaning guys could take a 10 yard running start at the line of scrimmage.
If you can cover a guy who's coming at your full speed from 10, you know, 10 yards back, Um, pre-snap and stick with them and stay in phase, like, I think DBs have a, you know, from arena, that translates really well, maybe even better, uh, particularly in man coverage.
Um, that was one where it definitely showed up.
This is not an X's and O's interview, but when you think about that context and you realize what the CFL field looks like and what the rules are, it's kind of interesting to meld a.
A lot of the best of the arena league stuff and CFL stuff, especially on the defensive side of football.
So yeah, anyway, enough of my knowledge on that.
That's few and far between.
So you graduated Ohio State in '05 and you have a bachelor's degree in political science, which is great, but it's not exactly the entry into the boardroom suite of owning a football team.
So what was the next step?
Yeah, I mean, so for my, you know, I actually, when I left uh arena football and minor league football, I was told, uh, by my wife that I had to get what, uh, what some people call a real job.
And so I, I did that.
I got a, I, you know, I'd already had a Series 7, you know, financial services license.
I didn't really use much, so I decided to do the next best thing, which is become a real estate agent.
And so, I, uh, worked as a realtor, um, my company, Keller Williams in, in Cleveland, Ohio for about 34, maybe 5 years.
Um, I actually became our top producer by a whole lot of luck, in my opinion, and, um, at, at one point, the CEO who was about 40 years my senior, he said, You know, I, I had applied for a managerial role with the company.
He said, no, I don't think you should be a manager.
I'd actually like you to be my successor.
And um at 30 years old, I became CEO of a real estate franchise in, in Cleveland, and then by, I think about 35 or 36 years old, um, it became the most valuable real estate franchise for Keller Williams Realty in the country.
And so we did a, we did a really good job, uh, ended up having 500 real estate agents working here, and that's probably where I got most of my business acumen, um, if there, if there is such a thing here.
And, um, you know, that's, that's where I, I still own, uh, a, a significant share of the company, um, today, but in 2021, you know, I kind of partially will say retired from that to get back into football, and uh that's kind of where I landed in the All-Star circuit.
I didn't know what an All-Star game was.
Until my first day working for one.
So, well, and so clearly 2021 and you had tried probably unsuccessfully to convince your your wife that a happy sports husband makes everybody happy all around and she probably said, yeah, fine, now go back to work.
Let's say it this way, a happy sports husband doesn't pay for private schools.
So we all, we all understand what it means to be successful in the sports business, how far you have to go.
So the transition from real estate maven to the quarterbacks coach of the Hula Bowl and then beyond, talk about that story.
Yeah, so, I began with the Hula Bowl.
So I'm actually, you know, before that, um, you know, I, I applied for a job with the Cleveland Browns, and it was like, you know, a cross between post-COVID midlife crisis, everyone be judgment, but if you knew me at all, you knew that's where I wanted to work.
Um, I got all the way up to the general manager to Andrew Barry's desk, and, you know, he met with me for 20 minutes and said, Scott, you did great in this interview.
I just can't bring out a guy for this position with no football experience in these meeting rooms, you need to go out and get some.
And I said, well, what, what would that look like?
And he said, I, I can't help you with that part, but you need to go do that.
So, um, I started out on the journey, I went to the scouting school for the Senior Bowl.
I worked with the elite scout school and the scouting academy to get trained as a, as a personnel, uh, you know, evaluator.
And, um, you know, through a friend of a friend, I got linked up with the, At that time, new director of the Hula Bowl College All-Star Game in 2021, which had just moved from Hawaii to Florida.
Uh, his name is Damon Talbot.
He runs an organization called NFL Draft Diamonds.
We had never met before.
Um, we had about a one hour phone call, and he said, listen, like, I think I can give you an opportunity to become a better evaluator and, and have a good, meaningful role in this All-Star circuit.
And what he wanted out of me, of course, was to leverage some of my business acumen to help make this game work.
And, uh, that's where, you know, so we became a team.
Uh, we did that in 2021.
I think we, we thought we did a great job, we probably didn't, um, with the Hula Bowl in retrospect, but we thought we did awesome, and we, we leveraged that.
I had 21 volunteer interns and myself included.
Um, you know, I was a volunteer that year.
I think 16 of them right now work in college football or pro football in some way.
Um, we leveraged that to become, you know, in, in meaningful roles.
And so I went from the Hula Bowl as the assistant director of scouting over to the University of Toledo, uh, and worked as a director of scouting there and also an assistant quarterback coach.
Um, that was a great time to be doing that.
Uh.
We, uh, we had a phenomenal quarterback named Daquan Finn, um, who I just coached in the American Bowl.
Um, he went on to, uh, to lead us to a MAC championship and also a bowl game victory against a team that was at one point ranked, uh, Liberty, uh, with Cadden Salter as a quarterback.
Yeah, all year, we got, you know, wearing it today, we got our, our awesome ring from the, uh, from the experience, you know, the, the, um, the MAC championship and the, the bowl game was great.
And that was really kind of my foray into from scouting into coaching, uh, so to say.
Nice.
So, what you've talked about in a lot of respect is a story that 1000 people always get into and it's hard to break in.
But now it's interesting.
So now it's like, all right, Hula Bowl's gone away.
De Santa's got enough political credit for bringing a Hawaii game to Florida.
The budget's cut.
We have a Tuesday night.
We're going to NFL Network.
We have a 4000 seat stadium.
Nobody knows where Southeastern University is, but I'm going to tell you where it is, and we're going to put this thing together out of whole cloth.
That's the story I want to talk about.
So, all right, Hula Bowl's over.
Pick it up.
Yeah, so.
The Hula Bowl situation was always, long before I was there, it was always a little bit on the, on the outskirts, and we did everything possible to, um, Damond and I to make that a great experience and, and just, at some point, the owner's vision and ours was different.
So, about midway through last year, you know, during the game, You know, and I, I had some other parts of my football journey, you know, by this point, now I'm directing the Hula Bowl, uh, independently.
Last year, and I was like, you know, this is, this is never gonna get better than it is right now.
Let's make this one awesome and then, you know, get the show on the road.
So, uh, you know, I talked to Coach Smith and Coach Billick, all of us are, you know, unpaid people, you know, for the Bowl, and said, listen, if we could, If we could take the things that we love the most about this and combine it with like some sensible business decisions, a little more predictable behavior, and just like, you know, some, some financial backing to be candid, um, You know, is this something we'd even be interested in?
And the, the consensus was that the three of us, Brian Billick, myself, and Mike Smith, all wanted to do it.
We just didn't know what that would take.
So, you know, I, I agreed to be, you know, the, the director and the, the financial backer of it, like, I own this game, um, you know, all the money, parts of it is out of my, my pocket.
Um, upside, upside, upside and downside, uh, all downside, uh, all downside here.
I'm sorry to interrupt, not gonna romanticize that at all.
All downside, now all downside.
I got it, yeah, yeah, unemployment was, would have, when I, when the game was over and I went on unemployment the next day, it was crazy.
Um, but no, it'll be, uh, it'll have upside next.
Yeah, well, in year one, it didn't, so it's OK.
We, we knew that going in.
Um, so when, uh, Brian, myself and Mike, you know, went to the league, and, uh, we ended up meeting with, uh, first Ken Fiori and Matt Scher in the personnel department, that's.
Then we went over to Roman Oben, um, who's kind of oversees more of the operations as an executive in the league office, um, and said, hey, look, this is, we've, we've kind of done a good job on the football end, we wanna nail it on the business side too.
What would it take?
And he was like, look, Scott, you're not gonna be an official game of the NFL until you prove that you're worthy of that, but here's the things you could do to prove you're worthy of it, and, like, we would cheer you on the whole way cause we think we need a 3rd All-Star game to be consistent, reliable.
Um, so, you know, he, I don't wanna say he gave me a step by step, that'd be an exaggeration, but he, he kind of gave me like a, this is what it would look like, good luck, and, um, let me know if I can help, and I, I think it was great.
I mean, he, he aligned us in kind of the direction we needed to be in and, uh, and we sort of just followed that path, um, you know, to make it a reality.
Yeah, Roman, Roman is great.
He's also got a kid that's a better athlete than him and uh and he's, he's a, he's a wonderful human being and he could, you know, you learn from the best as far as that's concerned.
So, you know, let's talk about the the the path to success, not a 5 year projection, but you mentioned 3rd All-Star Game.
Did you realize that there was a need from day one, or was it going to be difficult to get the players?
What was the hardest thing to accumulate early?
Yeah, so, I mean, we knew there was a need because when I started with the Hula Bowl in 21, we were the fourth All-Star game.
Uh, the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl kind of disbanded, for whatever reason after the 23 season or 23 game.
So we got two years of really being just, like, de facto third as the Hula Bowl, so we knew there was a need because our roster was so much better uh during those two years, but, You know, it just didn't, the Hula Bowl, we just couldn't meet those expectations, you know, the ownership and everything, it was just a different mindset.
Uh, it wasn't bad, it was just different.
Um, so we knew that there was a need for a, for a third game that met the NFL standards.
Um, Hula wasn't ultra interested in that.
So, you know, for us, that was first and foremost, we knew there was demand there.
Um, getting players was tough at first, I'll, I'll admit to that, and we sort of made a decision.
As we were doing our scouting, a pretty good scouting, uh, crew, you know, a couple former NFL guys, a couple of guys that worked with me at Ula, um, We said, hey, look, here's our rankings, here's what we think the Senior Bowl and Shrine Bowl will take.
So here's our crop of guys that we're choosing from.
Um, let's strike to the middle bottom of that first, because those might be a little lower hanging fruit, um, so we can get some commitments and then kind of gradually start, instead of what we would normally do is go get the best guy you could get.
Uh, we didn't even want to try initially cause it was like, no agent in their right mind would say, yeah, sure, let me have my guy go to this startup.
Um, and, and really all the way through.
Candidly, probably even Thanksgiving, Christmas range, somewhere in there.
We were still battling people, you know, agents, particularly saying, Scott, I know that, you know, we trust you and all, but, like, Hula Bowl's been around for 80 years, like, we're gonna send our guy to that.
Um, and, and we, you know, we sort of just said, yeah, that's, that's fine.
If that's the route you wanna go, um, I will tell you in, in, by the end, all but one of those people that made that decision elected to come to the American Bowl, uh, literally.
And yeah, you look at how intense the players were on the field walking around, you know, it's a, it's a showcase.
They're serious.
They understand the agents told them, you told them, and everybody did.
It is a huge catch-22 on steroids.
What happens first?
The NFL network commitment, the agents feeling like these kids are going to be on TV, the TV guys saying, Put your roster together first and we'll see who did what first.
So I'll tell you this much.
There's a little bit of a misnomer.
The TV part, um, legitimizes us and certainly, but like the NFL Network agrees to air it, but we pay for everything.
So we buy the spot.
Like the network has very little to risk other than me putting on a bad show.
Um, they virtually mandated the company I worked with from the production level, which I'm Honestly grateful they did.
Tupelo Honey was incredible to work with, um, but I would have never known them, but for the NFL saying, hey, and, and Carry, Kerry and those guys are great, but at the end of the day, uh, Thursday, you know, you're gonna take what you're given, and frankly, it's a good spot and yeah, we prefer that.
Yeah, we actually, they offered us Saturday, we requested Thursday, um, because I felt like Thursday Night Football just A new game, like Thursday nights are usually football year round, um, by that point it would have been the 3rd week in a row without it.
Uh, um, in the primetime slot, and we were sandwiched between the national championship and the AFC NFC championship.
So we, we picked the Thursday strategically.
That was actually our decision, not theirs.
Um, so, I felt like that was good.
The network, um, you know, obviously legitimizes us, allows us a certain level of, um, you know, latitude with, with saying that we're working with the NFL when, you know, that, that certainly gives us some credibility.
But the number one thing for me was, uh, the coaches and the NFL scouts.
So, reaching out to my relationships in the NFL community, getting those scouts to commit to show up, uh, once I got to the point where I could legitimize our game by saying there will be 200 NFL scouts there, it was far easier to get agents.
And then with the agents, I would say, hey, trust me with XYZ player, whoever it is that you see as your guy that's a fringe player anyway, and like, watch how his onboarding experience goes, watch how his equipment, you know, delivery experience goes, watch how his contract goes, compare that to the other games, tell me how you see it.
And if you trust me.
And so, you know, we would start with the guys, maybe at one of the agent's lesser players, and then they'd say, wow, Scott, like you're on top of communication, you're on top of travel, you're on top of, you know, bags and shipping and, and communicating with the equipment departments and the coaches and the acceptance graphics, and everything is systematic and predictable and reliable.
Yes, I will trust you with my next guy.
Up.
And, you know, eventually we kind of, we, we worked from the bottom up, which was very different than what I probably drew out my business plan, to be honest, but it, it ended up, you know, working out pretty well.
By the end, I mean, we were, like, people were calling us begging to add people to our roster that were really good, by the way, like we had at the end that we were like, I can't believe I don't have room for this guy.
I would have assumed you wouldn't let me have him, but, you know, they were pretty impressed, and so that worked out.
And I will tell you, as a sports business guy who likes to play in this space, you look at your roster and it was really compelling at the end of the day, and it was great.
Obviously the 3rd, but you don't have to take a backseat to anybody.
As far as the the scouts are concerned, I don't want to talk about, you know, fan and community support for a minute.
The scouts are, is that part of a of an advertised rotation, so you spend a little while in South Central Florida, then you go up to, then you go to Frisco, you know, then, then you go to Mobile and you're all in the same kind of world.
Is that, is that, is that what ultimately is happening?
Each team is different.
So the ones with the smaller scouting departments or less people that they trust, they will literally go right from The American Bowl to the Shrine Bowl to the Senior Bowl.
Yes, that is a track.
Um, typically with our game, um, I think the more common approach was most of our people went to our game, uh, they would be the Southeast or generally Southeast area scouts, plus, uh, some national scouts and, you know, interior guys like scouting assistants, blessedto NFS scouts, like, you know, we would get probably between 5, roughly about 5 per team, maybe 6.
And then those guys would go home, do their write-ups, and then they would go to Mobile for the Senior Bowl.
That was, I think, the more common track.
We didn't have a whole lot that I was aware of that went from, from the American Bowl to East-West.
I think they sort of stagger it a little bit, so the guys aren't on the road for 15 days straight.
Um.
You know, that's a tough, tough time of year to be doing that.
So, I'm sure there were guys that had to do that, but not, not as many as I would have thought initially.
Hey, it's Central Florida, so, you know, suck it up and get on a plane and go to the next city.
Uh, the, the other, the other thing is that you, you know, you, you, you get tape of each of the players, you get a made for TV event and it's football, and people will tune in just because it's football.
At the end of the day, how do you deal with the inevitable criticism that, you know, you had 3000 people, you have 2000, whatever it is, the attendance was small, it's a small stadium, nobody knows where it is, all of that stuff in the industry, you know, people shouldn't care about that, but how do you deal with it?
Yeah, I mean, Every, this is my fifth one.
I've never seen one with an attend, I mean, you know, they'll say the attendance was 8000 or whatever at the previous games I worked at.
It was never, I mean, I've got pictures with my, you know, from the side, like there's never more than 2500, 3000 in a game.
It's just, that's how it is, you know, we have a really, really, uh, big plan that I can't share, um, to get, uh, our stadium full next year.
Um, it's kind of collaborating, different kind of event.
And I, I anticipate next year we'll have a very highly attended, uh, event, um, you know, largely because of what we're gonna sister up with, but I think, um, yeah, it's, it's tough.
All-Star games just lack the, um, the fan, you know, it's people who want to see the player, and they wanna, you know, they're really like draft fanatics, but like, at the end of the day, it's like a massive Tennessee fan gonna You know, come down from Knoxville to, to watch 3 guys from their team play in an All-Star game.
Probably not, um, you know, so it's mostly like draft enthusiasts and just people who had nothing to do that day, and, and we get that, lots of friends and family, obviously, and, you know, we're, we're happy to play.
Uh, the small stadium kind of made it even easier, uh, and that made it feel more full.
Great, great building, great idea.
Southeastern University ought to be excited because it puts them on the map, such as it is.
And also, you know, I can't wait to see who the sister is you're sistering up with.
And whoever the sister is, you ought to, we ought to, somebody ought to take it to Polk County too in the state because.
It's a diamond in the rough as far as economic impact is concerned.
Just saying.
So let's conclude by talking about the future.
First of all, come clean with the one big thing you were worried about or the one big thing you want to improve going into next year.
Yeah, I think the biggest challenge for me is, is people, you know, I have an amazing staff, they're all borderline volunteer.
I mean, like, welfare would pay better than all but one of the people I have on my staff, including myself.
And so, you know, to be able to have a budget, um, and, and compensate people fairly for the time that they put in is my number one priority right now.
Um, every call that I'm dealing with here in January is making sure that my sponsors are satisfied at this point and that they're interested in coming back and or doing more next year.
And the earlier I can get those kinds of commitments, the sooner I can retain my people as full-timers, uh, instead of having them work part-time jobs and work with me in the evening.
And that's, that's my number one, is the people.
Like, this is now a real game.
The NFL recognizes it.
Yeah, it's on the calendar now.
It's on the official NFL calendar.
We didn't even expect that, but it is now officially part of the NFL's calendar of All-Star games.
Um, it's on the NFL Network, obviously, um, you know, we, we are handling stadium reservations right now and You know, the biggest thing for me would be finding a way to get this thing financed a little bit better, um, so that I can, you know, take care of my people and make sure they have a, a, you know, fulfilling career for the amount of effort they have to put in.
They leaned in hard this year with very little promise, and, and I'd like to take care of them now.
Two more questions.
First one follows up on the on the financing issue.
Everybody in the world is talking about equity interests and how do you monetize and all of that at the college level too.
You've got the University of Utah opening itself up to buying shares of the program.
What does that mean?
Well, that's blasphemous, except if you're selling TV rights and you have equity and a revenue stream.
Oh, that's OK.
What's the difference?
It's semantics.
Having set the table for that one, are you interested in a strategy potentially to, uh, look at equity in the game in the future now that you've established yourself as the third All-Star game?
I mean, It's not something I would be opposed to having an equity partner, um, but, you know, listen, I, I know my last name's Phillips, but I'm an old school Italian, you know, we pay for everything in cash and we don't use credit cards.
I, uh.
I just, I don't, yeah, I, I don't probably see that happening, you know, if, if I believe in my business model, I'll probably find it, continue to self-finance it and, and wear it on my, on my back.
Uh, it's not that I wouldn't take on a partner, but it would be probably a, like a real partner that's gonna help grow, you know, and build and, and establish and, and, and, you know, put some effort into it, uh, rather, cause I, I just don't see what I would.
Give back at this point to an equity partner that's just trying to, you know, do TV rights or something like the game's not, it's televised, but it's not, not gonna be viewed the same way like an NFL playoff game would.
So, you know, from my lens, like I appreciate all our sponsors, we treated them like partners, um, in many cases.
I know some of them, I can't legally say that, you know, but, um, you know, we, we gave them as much as we could to help them, you know, get good business opportunities out of working with me.
And I, I would imagine that we'll probably double down on that effort before I would take on someone from the outside.
I would argue that you've already done the hardest work, but that's for uh people that judge the history of this to decide.
Final question, uh, where is the All-American Bowl and Scott Phillips five years from now?
So, the American Bowl will still be the, uh, the, the 5th, the 3rd All-Star Game if I have my, my say in it, and I know that sounds funny to say, but, um, I love that it's the 3rd game because the players are really enthusiastic about playing and trying and, and getting on the field and, like, fighting for reps and Like their enthusiasm is really, really high.
So first and foremost, I'd like to continue being on the NFL calendar, I'd like to continue being the first game that's played on the NFL calendar, so that we're, we're that bronzes game.
Um, I would anticipate that literally, we will still be in Florida.
Um, you know, we have great partners at the University of Central Florida.
Southeastern was a gracious host, uh, for us.
Um, UCF is a, is a phenomenal host, and, um, you know, I would imagine we'll try to continue that relationship and You know, as, as for me, listen, my, my dream was never to own an All-Star game.
Um, I'll probably still own it cause that's just how the cookie crumbles, but Um, you know, I will probably continue to work in football and, uh, in this role and also probably in some other roles as well, and, you know, I'm not gonna abandon ship by any means, but I would expect you'll be interviewing Christian Covio a little bit as well, our director, um, because he'll be the one probably, uh, you know, pulling the strings with the American Bowl, especially about 5 years from now.
He really loves it.
Uh, it's our 3rd year working together now, and I would anticipate this is probably his, uh, his home base career-wise for a, for a long time as the director.
But is your wife happy that you now have a real job?
That's the key.
This is the, uh, the, the worst paying job I've ever had.
Yeah, but obviously intense, happy, being in the industry for 50 years.
The industry needs more of the Scott Phillips range, immense success in the future.
Sports professor Rick Harrow, speak with you soon.
